How the Weapon Changes Affect You

Published on: Feb 6, 2015 @ 18:51

Contributing author: Ryan Kirby

What do the weapon updates mean for you and your playstyle?

stats1

This article will theorize about how these changes will affect you and your favorite weapons.

Auto Rifles

Everyone’s favorite (and only) primary weapon for Iron Banner will be losing some range. Bungie’s intended change will further divide auto rifles between high stability—for close quarters combat—and range—for mid-range engagements.

In addition, auto rifles will be on the receiving end of a 2.5% damage reduction that will affect low RoF, high impact auto rifles more. It’s a shame that Bungie didn’t limit this change to PvP.

According to Bungie, auto rifles that already have high accuracy will be the least affected by the range reductions, putting guns like SUROS RegimeMonte Carlo , and Vanquisher VIII out of harm’s way.

auto rifle range nerf

The minor decrease to damage will largely be trivial in PvP, where you’ll just need to land an extra shot or two. This change is likely to be felt more in PvE, where damage output will be reduced exponentially during longer engagements.

It remains to be seen exactly how the auto rifle nerfs will shake out, but this patch does address the imbalance between “bullet hoses” and the more powerful low RoF auto rifles. Conversely, this patch may well be a backhand to high RoF auto rifles, weapons that typically suffer from low range, by relegating their use specifically to close quarters combat.

Necrochasm probably shed a tear reading the update.

Pulse Rifles

Other than a select few, pulse rifles are in a bad place; thankfully Bungie is well aware. Pulse rifles are getting a new lease on life with the upcoming patch, benefiting from a blanket 9.7% increase to DPS. Suddenly, Red Death just got even deadlier.

This buff to pulse rifles is better late than never. Shortly after launch, the entire weapon class was deemed objectively worse than any other primary and the community largely left these weapons at the tower.

The signature burst fire of pulse rifles provided no real benefit, slowing these weapons down and making them unable to compete with other primaries. Between the high reward of landing rapid precision shots using a hand cannon or simply holding down an auto rifle trigger there was no room for pulse rifles in any area of combat.

destiny pulse rifle buff

Now that pulse rifles are going to be improved, keep your eyes open for strong ones. Try to get your hands on the Crucible’s Three Little Words since its got the best Impact.

Red Death is already a favorite weapon to some—especially for Crota’s End hard mode—but this buff should make it live up to its morbid lore.

Oversoul Edict will still posses undesirable perks for PvP, but a strong argument could be made for its sustained damage in PvE.

We can’t say if this buff to pulse rifles will be everything the infamously maligned weapon class needs, but it’s undoubtedly a welcome tweak. With auto rifles and hand cannons simultaneously losing range, pulse rifles are poised to become powerful tools in PvP.

Pulse rifles will become a more rewarding choice for Guardians that can consistently land strings of precision shots. They’ll still perform best in mid-range, but their damage won’t fall off as drastically in long-range firefights.

Disgruntled hand cannon users should give these weapons a try when 1.1.1. rolls around.

Hand Cannons

Hand cannons are simply too monstrous in the right hands. With the Send It perk, Thorn is able to effectively duel at all ranges—outplaying slower snipers and putting the entire scout rifle weapon class to shame.

In the upcoming patch, Bungie will be reducing the effective range of hand cannons and accuracy at high ranges will take a nosedive.

This nerf was clearly intended to make choosing a primary more difficult. Hand cannons will still be strong weapons after the patch, but now they’ll need to be coupled with a sniper rifle to cover their new-found weak spot. Functioning as a skeleton key weapon, there just isn’t counter-play to powerful hand cannons that hit like a truck at all ranges.

hand cannon range nerf

Many in the community don’t seem to be taking the news well, but this change was bound to happen at some point. On the bright side, scout rifles and pulse rifles now have a more clearly defined purpose.

Scout rifles in particular felt a little underwhelming in most situations where a hand cannon would have sufficed. This change will hopefully increase the viability of other primary weapons across all modes of play.

Hopefully these changes reduce the pervasive power of hand cannons at long-range while maintaining their uniquely fun and rewarding play-style.

Fusion Rifles

It’s easy to see why fusion rifles are the “most hotly disliked weapon to be killed by,” according to Bungie. The tell-tale charge of these weapons in PvP often proceeds a single-shot disintegration.

Bungie will be increasing the spread of fusion rifle bolts at longer ranges making them less effective outside close and mid-range combat.

Additionally, the lower starting ammo is a change intended at making these weapons less of a primary PvP.

fusion rifle nerf ammo

These changes are really only aimed at Guardians using their fusion rifle for the majority of a Crucible game. Lower starting ammo won’t effect fusion rifles in PvE and reserve ammo has been untouched.

In fact, this change may even be a boon for fusion rifles in PvE. With a wider cone, you’ll be able to take out packs of weaker enemies easier, making the fusion rifle more powerful in their intended range.

Shotguns

Bungie will be reducing shotgun efficacy at longer range, while previously low range shotguns will remain relatively unchanged. Shotguns will also have a lower starting ammo a la fusion rifles, intended to curb Guardians from using them ubiquitously in PvP.

In addition to those changes, shotguns will now deal a whopping 2x damage outside of the Crucible. This buff is intended at increasing shotgun popularity, making them more rewarding against low tier enemies.

Unfortunately for these one-shot wonders, the nerf in range is really going to sting. With the increased PvE damage, shotguns are likely to feel more fun in low-level content—sweeping up patrol fodder with ease and turning strikes into whack-a-mole—but this change doesn’t address the real issue at the heart of these weapons.

shotgun pve buff

Enemies in high level content have tremendous damage potential. Getting into effective range with a shotgun is suicidal during a Nightfall or against the beefy level 33 minions in hard mode Crota’s End. This patch will do nothing to address that, while further decreasing shotgun power outside melee range.

Alternatively, Universal Remote may become more reliable relative to other shotguns. The decrease to range won’t taint this weapon’s namesake perk, providing shotgun enthusiasts with a better reason to equip this weapon in Crucible.

What’s the Take Away?

All of the upcoming changes are designed at further specializing weapons, forcing Guardians to reconsider their setup more frequently.

iron_banner_graphAuto rifles are losing a bit of damage coupled with a decrease in effective range, but high range ARs like SUROS Regime will continue to haunt Crucible playlists.

Pulse rifles are being added to the game. Disgruntled hand cannon fans may find respite in this strange new weapon class due to their wide array of effective ranges.

Losing range as well as accuracy, hand cannons will remain powerful tools for close-to-mid-range combat, but damage falloff will be significant in long-range firefights. Thorn users may have forgotten the existence of secondary weapons, but don’t fear—they’re just a button press away.

Fusion rifles and shotguns both met with range and starting ammo nerfs intended to curb their viability in PvP. Outside Crucible, shotguns will deal double damage, but will remain a poor choice for high level combat due to their short effective range. Your hard mode group will still kick you for using Universal Remote against Crota. What were you thinking?

Scout rifles, sniper rifles, and heavy weapons were performing up to par according to Bungie. Scout rifles in particular will benefit in the wake of range nerfs to auto rifles and hand cannons. Their characteristically high range will finally be noticeable relative to other primary weapons.

The Last Word

Hopefully this round of changes introduces better variety to Destiny, especially to the increasingly stale Crucible meta. After the patch you may find your play-style was in line with scout rifles all along. Maybe that pulse rifle you never fired once will become your best friend.

pvp_cauldron

It’s unfortunate that Bungie couldn’t just reduce AR damage in PvP and leave PvE alone, basically doing the opposite of what they did with shotgun damage. In the same way, they should of kept all ‘nerfs’ limited to PvP, as PvE balance isn’t an issue at all.

Speaking of shotguns, as stated above, their use in endgame PvE is very limited. Reddit user omniwnk posted an excellent analysis of why shotguns still aren’t going to be useful in the harder content, such as Crota’s End.

Simply put, the way the game is designed, the only real way to play endgame PVE content is to constantly hide behind cover and peek out to take pot shots at range. If you want to make shotguns viable, tone down damage output by enemies SIGNIFICANTLY, while adding new mechanics that make them difficult in different/more interesting ways

Whatever the case, we’re excited and a little nervous about the sweeping weapon balancing.

What about you?

PlanetDestiny
Check out forums.planetdestiny.com if you'd like to talk to others about Destiny in a friendly and welcoming community! :)

LATEST POSTS BY AUTHOR

  • Samatas

    Shotguns are crap against high level enemies.
    Why use them in a nightfall while any enemy can one shot you with a melee attack when you are at shotgun range?
    Welcome change but not enough to make them a viable secondary weapon for high level pve content.

  • Johnny Adams

    bungie needs to get thier shit together and fx destiny ad who uses a shotgun on a nightfall is passed stupid

    • Thomas Harrison

      i cant count the number of times i’ve been saved by keeping my shotgun equiped for the occasion that i’ve missed an enemy and its know behind me or staggering a Minotaur ultra so it doesn’t wipe out my fireteam

  • Barrilho

    R.I.P thorn+found verdict crucible loadout
    2014-2015

    may we never forget the good you did

    • Johnny Adams

      A 12 gun salute to them who gave me a 20 kd you’ll always be in my heart as the king of rumble weapons

  • Dan

    The weapon balance was just fine in PvE, obviously there are issues in PvP and I understand making those changes. But Bungie needs to quit dictating to the gamer how the game is supposed to be played or the loyals are going to start leaving, myself included. Believe me a lot of my Xbox Destiny friends are feeling this way too. We’re tired of being their guinnea pigs while they try to figure out what they want the game to be

    • Christian

      To be honest. Shotguns are currently pointless in PVE. They are just too weak to justify using. Double Damage helps out. Pulse rifles barely get used so they are giving more reasons to use them.

      Bungie are trying to make the game enjoyable. If nobody used pulse rifles, there is no reason to leave them in the dust. They refined them a bit more so people can enjoy using them. That’s all (:

      • Octus

        I agree, shotguns are not good for PVE. I really only ever use one when I’m patrolling just for a change of pace. Or if I’m leveling up an exotic.

        • Christian

          Same here. It is a difficult thing to truly estimate the performance of in development. I think the game is too far gone to completely revamp the performance of shotguns, I don’t think they will every be entirely useful in PVE. I think in the next title they will absolutely nail it.

          • Octus

            i hope so. im looking forward to the next game, but i hope they include a lot of what people have been hoping for. or at the very least, a new crucible mode that is sparrow racing. so you dont have to always go in there and kill guardians to get marks and rep.

      • God

        And that, alone, would be fine. But instead, they buffed the weapons they wrote up as shit, and then further, fucked up the ones people actually used. Yeah….That makes sense.

        • Christian

          If a weapon is being used excessively, that only implies they are much too easy to use and much too effective. Besides, you wont notice a 2% difference with Autorifles. Shotguns are abused massively in PVP. Incredibly frustrating, they are making he right choice by nerfing them. It makes it far more enjoyable for the players that don’t neglect them.

          If a weapon is underused, chances are there is something wrong with it. No Point having weapons in the game that don’t get used (:

    • Brandon Freeman

      Bungie bit off more than it could chew with including PvP in this type of a game. It doesn’t work, just doesn’t. I have no interest, and I am not the only one I know, that have no interest in playing… that includes the exotic bounty’s, most of the time when I get to the part of the crucible, they sit for 2 weeks, then I disbanded them. Crucible is terrible. Concentrate on this “open world” There ARE SO MANY CHANGES that should be made. Simple one, start me off at the tower, I’ve seen their version of “space” so many times, I’m sick of it, load me in to my space craft cockpit and let me pick a place I wanna go, not load screen out, load screen planets, load screen to the other planet. Huge kick in the nuts. Exiting me all the way out of a nightly…. Start me at the damn beggining. I like the game,I was on a roll when I played this game for hours… but I just have lost interest in it. I still play from time to time, but not daily, and not for hours. I have 3 31’s, all different classes… I wanted to experience the World in all 3 races…. guess what, the world is the same regardless of which class you are. When I played Ultima Online or WoW, the Word felt different dependig on which class you choose. It’s a good game, does anyone know if they put out statistics on how many players play in the crucible when the iron banner isn’t going on, as opposed to when it is going on? And what happened to “The Queen’s Wrath”??????

      • Christian

        Crucible is great fun. I think it is an important part of Destiny. It adds a lot of meaning to the older weapons and give purpose to guns like “Truth”, “The Last Word”, “Suros Regime”, Shotguns and Fusion Rifles in general etc.

        If I were to give my honest opinion about Crucible, I’d say it needs more focus. Destiny is an excellent platform for plenty of interesting player versus player features. Games like Halo are locked into a very specific style. Destiny could do a lot with PVP.

        Besides, Destiny is an FPS. It’s traditional to have PVP. Plus, you get all of these players that complain about Destiny’s MMO style features, like New Gear Coming in, Patrols etc. Destiny should stay quite close to the FPS style.

        Also, I hypothesise that the Queen’s Wrath will return with the House of Wolves as the main NPC (Like Eris). Since she has a lot of HoW specific bounties, it makes a lot of sense.

        • Brandon Freeman

          Besides forums that are pro crucible forums, you are the only one i know who says the crucible is fun. I think it’s terrible, and not balanced properly…. and to force people who play PvE only, play PvP in order to unlock something in the game, is ridiculous.

          • insanetrasher

            PvP is fun if you don’t like competitve games. If you’re the competitive type of player you don’t play Destiny PvP. Which sucks because they could do amazing things with PvP.

            Honestly I believe Destiny could benifit a lot by having some sort of PvE element in its PvP ala Titanlfall if you like. Or PvE modes that are played on small PvP style maps… so much unused potential in this game its amazing..

          • Christian

            Things shouldn’t have to be perfectly balanced for them to be fun. In my opinion: I feel unbalance is far more enjoyable. It makes things far less predictable and things rarely happen the same way. I don’t enjoy perfectly fair Arena games. Iron Banner is good fun with a team of fiends, but I feel a lot more could be done and explored with. Destiny is a game that influences you to interact with players. PvP is a big part of that and I do think it is certainly important.

            I do think PVP should be excluded from PVE related content, I must agree. But I simply can’t agree with Crucible being removed entirely. Destiny would feel like it was missing something. But when the two cross over it does violate continuity.

          • Zaruma

            Balance is important and does the opposite of what you described. When certain guns are obviously better than others, you see a lot less variety and things definitely aren’t less predictable if everyone is using the same gun.

          • Brandon Freeman

            What I was thinking, how could anyone think balance, in a PvP game isn’t important? Take 1 gun, let’s’ say Suros does a ton of damage because of a certain perk…. wow you’re playing against 75% of people who actually own a Suros rifle. There are only 3 exotics that require PvP…. I have no idea if that’s true, but I had 3 at once, all at the crucible part, and I ditched them. And I’m not the only one who’s done that. I have No interest in playing PvP, I’m 33 and been playing games since the first Nintendo, if I want a shooter, I’ll go buy COD… to force a player who aquired their exotic bounty, doing PvE things, you think it’s right that they force that person to enter the crucible in order to get that exotic? To experience Every part of the game? Then you’re playing the game the way somebody else wants you to play, not the way you play the game. PvP is terrible, just terrible in this game and taking an element in PvE, and making it bePvP makes sense in what land? I’ve only played Ultima Online, and WoW, for about 3 monthsk but the way I think of it is in Ultima Online… you’d have to venture from Trammel (safe spot) into the old zone (where there were no rules) in order to get the rest of the pieces of armor where you use it in Trammel…. make sense? Whatever….

          • Sambones

            All of your posts just sound like a bunch of whining. You dont like the game, stop playing? COD is shit compared to the PVP in Destiny. Having PVE to affect your playstyle, gear and weapons that you bring into PVP makes it so much more enjoyable. There is going to be some unbalanced aspects to it of course, and there should be. For people like you who wanna bitch and complain about having to work for your exotics (that very well might be OP), make my job of destroying noobs in PVP with that weapon so much easier. Quit your bitching and go play your COD where you and the 12 year olds can whine together.

          • Brandon Freeman

            You’re telling me to go play COD? The entire point of my post, is that I do not like playing games like that anymore, I’ve been playing shoot, die games since the original medal of honor on my PC back in like 2000 or some crap. What you, Sambones, do not realize, is that not everyone feels exactly like you, and not everyone feels exactly like me, but to force somebody to play a section of the game, that they dislike playing, in order to get some exotic weapon, does not make any sense at all… step back, take a deep breath, and actually process that. Forcing PvE to play PvP in order to obtain a weapon? I delete them anymore, I’ve been playing since the game came out, exotics don’t mean the best. I love how kids nowadays use this whole “go play COD” as some sort of insult??? Do you know how popular MW2 was when it came out? Everyone had and was playing that game. Kids are so weird, using games to insult one another… why do you take my opinions so personal would be the best question. whatever, not my problem.

          • hippo

            You are completly wright, all those frustrated kids take it personal when you have a OPINION about destiny, and have to make insulting comments! But take this in mind…its not their fault, they did not get enough breastmilk so they have tiny narrowminded brains!

          • Brandon Freeman

            Something happened to this generation that’s growing up, I read a lot of comments in MAK’s youtube channel, and some other’s, and the things they say… it’s as if they’re comfortable insulting others and saying things to other people online, that they never would in person…. I’m 6ft 180 covered in tat’s… and these kids think the internet is where they flex their muscle, well I grew up where you put up or shut up. South Sac, I use this analogy all the time, it’s the people who drive with rage that are morons, someone cuts you off and they freak out and cause even more problems, where as if you’re walking in the street and somebody bumps in to you on accident, you react the same way? It’s an opinion, and it’s a game…. you take life way too seriously dude, not you hippo, other person.

          • hippo

            we will see how long destiny will excist,cod for 12 years and it seems to me that alot of friends of my stopped playing destiny! And in what way does bladedancer refers to a fps?! Dont get me wrong i like destiny, but if you want to play a good shooter, you dont play destiny because of its supers! And yes when cod world at war 2 comes out i will undoubtedly will buy it and play it! Bye bye destiny!

          • Christian

            I might not have been specific enough. When I say balance, I mean the idea that everyone is the same. When I say I don’t want the game to be balanced, I mean I don’t want it like Halo; where everyone has the same weapons, grenades, abilities and such.

            When one weapons is Over powered, that is something I don’t favour the idea of. I favour the idea that people can choose their own Weapons, Gear, Classes, play on asymmetrical maps etc.

            It’s unpredictable because you can’t possibly know the details of all of your opponents right away, you have to come up against them to see their combat patterns. When a Game of halo starts (excluding Halo 4), you know all of the Spartans are identical and don’t inherit any special and unique functions. Making the game very predictable.

          • Zaruma

            I agree. Personally I like destiny’s multiplayer much more than halo because every halo game feels exactly the same only with new maps. I like being able to use interesting guns ad customizing my character to play how I want to play. I’m willing to risk the fact that it may currently be difficult to balance something like that, but in time I think bungie will figure out an algorithm that works.

          • Christian

            Certainly, It is the main reason I love Crucible (:

          • ProfessionalCitizen

            A. unbalance by definition makes things more predictable. Powerful auto rifles means more auto rifles, less variety means more predictability. Balance means more choice, more variety, less predictability.
            B. How is continuity violated? The crucible is actually well explained in universe, I can think of no reason PvP and PvE can’t intertwine. Maybe they shouldn’t, but they definitely can.

          • Christian

            I assumed he was talking about the fact everyone is allowed to choose their own weapons, classes and perks. Similar to how people complained Halo 4 was unbalanced because players were allowed to choose their own load outs. Mechanic wise, I’d prefer the game to refined, but that wasn’t what I meant. I mean Asymmetrical maps, more player verity and such.

            Again, I think there has been a misconception. I’m aware Crucible is fully justified. I actually read the lore about it recently and think it is a very nice concept. Story wise, Gear wise, character wise, PVE and PVP form a very important link. But when Bounties overlap the two, I would prefer it otherwise. I think it would be nice to have PVE Bounties entirely and PVP bounties entirely, rather than have them jumping between the two. If you get what I mean? Sorry about the confusions.

          • God

            Sure choose whatever you want! But, if too many people notice it working, ryan a and the other fucktards will be along directly to fuck that shit up for you, while continuing to NOT FIX ACTUAL BROKEN THINGS. Somebody run over ryan a’s dog please.

          • Christian

            Ryan A, is my content director 😉 I would be one of his “fucktards”. We write articles to inform the community of changes in the game, (hopefully)interesting and entertaining points and facts and useful information on how to play the game.

            We have no say in what happens with Destiny. We simply bring the word on to you.

            As I have been educated on the subject of Game Design and Development I can tell you that fixing problems in games is no easy task. It may seem easy, like fixing a household object or something, but it is very, very difficult. Watch a few videos on Coding a game of Pong for “Unity”. Even that is confusing as heck. Just imagine a game like Destiny with its monolithic piles of Code 😉 Seriously, try it, It may be a big eye opener.

          • This is a fan site, we’re not Bungie or affiliated with them

          • Zaruma

            I’m sorry you actually had to point that out. Thanks for the site btw.

          • chris

            I think its pretty fun (could be way funner) but it might have to do with me not sucking at it because most people say that “its not balanced/fun” generally do really horrible in it but thats just my observations

          • ProfessionalCitizen

            I love crucible, I think it is absolutely brilliant, and is one of the very best multiplayer games I’ve played. The balance is pretty darn good, and is better than a lot of other shooters, and should soon be pretty close to spot on. As far as making pve players play pvp, there are only (as far as I know) 3 exotics in the entire game that require pvp. I think it is reasonable that if you want everything in the entire game, then you must play at least a little bit of every part of the game?

        • Petr Švancara

          You are blind at all your opinions. . you don’t save the Destiny with your sweet response. Deal with it.
          – Halogen cz

          • Christian

            Even someone who is blind wouldn’t have any trouble noticing that every Triple-A FPS game has competitive multilayer 😉 It’s not entirely my opinion, It’s just a fact and a tradition.

            It’s not like I have a problem with the fact you disagree, but I honestly couldn’t care less 😉 If you don’t think I shouldn’t have an opinion, because of simple disagreement, you are the one who is Blind. You don’t decide who is allowed opinions and who isn’t. You can disagree, that’s about it.

      • Zaruma

        Personally, crucible is my most played game mode and I think it’s incredibly fun. Granted it needs some tweaks and some extra content to keep it fresh.

        • not a CoD whore

          Go play CoD and keep that BS there. PVP was an after thought because all the CoD whores were crying.

      • DamnYourTittyStank

        Crucible is the best part of the game best gunplay around it dosen’t get any better the transitions between weapons is the best your gonna get i seen a guy throw a gernade kill switch to AR kill Meele kill to shotgun kill earned a mercieless in 4 seconds.

      • kohum

        I like crucible.All bungie has to do is keep pve and pvp weapon balancing completely separate. This will solve a lot of gripes and keep both camps happy.

  • undead luke 92

    Pre ordered destiny, got the expansion pass, loved pvp and pve. .. stopped playing 6 weeks ago due to budgie’s guinea pig style updates. Shame though I really loved this game ….
    R . I . P Destiny

    • Zaruma

      You didn’t stop playing 6 weeks ago, I guarantee it.

      • sarcasmabot

        No man, he totally stopper playing 6 weeks ago. He just likes to check up on planet destiny to see how pathetic all of us current destiny players are.

  • BAMozzy69 .

    Personally I don’t think the weapons needed to be nerfed to improve the Pulse Rifles. As far as I am concerned, the other classes perform as I would expect them to do. Personally I think the biggest issue with Pulse Rifles is the Stability of that Burst. Because of the kick it is impossible to get all 3 shots to hit where aimed unless at point blank range. If you aim for a headshot at mid-range – the range Bungie says these should be optimal for – the first bullet may hit but the 2nd flies over the head and 3rd is hitting the sky. They are NOT precision instruments.

    According to Bungie, their ‘goals’ for Pulse Rifles are

    1) Pulse Rifle is optimal at medium range, but can still effectively harass enemies at close or long range distances.

    2) Rate of Fire sets a pace for players to both track moving targets, and then deliver precision damage in bursts

    The only way to make this happen is to make them more like a burst fire Scout Rifle where the grouping of that Burst is incredibly tight. If a single shot from a scout rifle does 1,000 damage, I would expect a single bullet from the pulse to do at least 333. Pulse Rifles have less ‘shots’ than Scout Rifles on average – Oversoul Edict with Field Scout only has 14 Shots (42 Bullets) – 1 less than Fang of Ir Yut without Field Scout.

    If you had to hit each high level enemy with as many shots as it takes a Pulse rifle to kill (assuming each bullet hits accurately) with a Scout Rifle or Hand Cannon then no-one would use these weapons either.

    Pulse Rifles have a similar RoF (in terms of trigger pull – not the burst), shots (again trigger pull – around 10 – not ammo) as Hand Cannons and Scout Rifles but a similar damage /impact etc to Auto Rifles.

    As I said a Pulse Rifle needs to be more like a burst fire Scout where each burst hits where aimed and does a similar amount of damage per burst.

    As for the change to Shotguns in PvE – The main reason they are so underused is because of Range rather than Damage. Why would you use a weapon that is only effective in melee range – especially with Lightswitch modifiers. They also take a long time to reload. Reducing the Range is not likely to entice me to use them in PvE – even if the Damage is increased. I would still rather use a Sniper or maybe a Fusion and stick with meleeing enemies that get that close…

    Even though they say that High RoF/Low Impact AR’s will be affected less from this nerf (probably because the recoil makes them very difficult to use at range anyway) I still think they need to do a few buffs to the Necrochasm. Its attack stat needs to be at least 356 – this is the same % increase as the Vex had over other Exotics of the time. It probably won’t add much to the damage per shot but could mean 1-2 less shots to kill. It also needs a big magazine buff to at least 70 to bring it in line with other AR’s of this nature. I also think it needs a bit more stability too. My Atheon’s Epilogue feels more stable and controllable without Fitted Stock than Nechrochasm does with it. I wouldn’t mind seeing the Cursebringer perk trigger every time too like Firefly does on other weapons. These changes would still not make the Nechrochasm a top tier Exotic but it would make it more viable and more worthy of the effort required to obtain it.

  • Let’s wait how this changes will affect the player. There’s nothing we can do. I love the game so far, but if I feel uncomfortable I just quit. I hope Bungie keep working for the player and not for what they just think is right or wrong.
    Some changes will be welcome. Players who uses shotguns as primary in PVP are a real pain in the ass. Actually, that would be great to reduce the acess to special ammo in PVP. This way, players would use it more wisely.

  • Gour Kernow

    Exotics and raid weapons apart, these issues are brought about in part by bungies use of RNG in weapon perks. Apart from the fact that you may be unlucky enough to never have recieved a decent set of perks from a random drop, or a preferred class drop (Ive still not recieved a single hand cannon from cryptarch or any faction) bungie will now seek to nerf the problem they themselves created. Is it not a better idea to just introduce a much less random nature to the perks for each class, ones that suit each classes strengths and styles without making them too OP or just plain crap, because apart from the awful drop rate of weapons in destiny, i am fed up of dismantling the few legendary weapons i do get because the perks are useless. I would also like to see bungie introducing some fairness to weapon rewards when ranking up with factions by allowing us to choose between the primary, special or heavy class type offered by the engram. I don’t want another rocket launcher, another shotgun, another scout rifle necessarily because i have plenty now thankyou. If bungie want to make things fairer, and wants us to appreciate every class of weapon, narrow down the randomness of the perk system and give the unlucky folk a better opportunity to actually aquire a useful version of each weapon class rather than abandoning everything to this games infuriating RNG system.

    • God

      Easier to nerf the things people use than fix whats broken. AND you get to do it in time to write shitty articles about it. Right RYAN A ?

  • Octus

    I’m excited for the pulse rifle bump, I recently got the Crota hard mode pulse rifle and have been having a lot of fun with it.
    everything else, they should have left alone. Things were working just fine in PVE.
    I know a few of you have been really expressing your desire to see the Queens Wrath again. My guess is that this will return in a similar way to Eris when the new content is released. Hopefully they make some changes to the look of the armor.

  • insanetrasher

    This only confirms they don’t have any idea about where they’re going with the game balance, they earlier showed us they didn’t know about their systems, now this.. But since they got so many things done right, and the fact that we’re only 5 months in, I think they’re doing a “good” job by at least trying things.

    Diablo 3 took 2 full years and a “real” expansion to get from bad to good. So I think Destiny is looking good.

    • ProfessionalCitizen

      Enlighten me. How in the world does this show that “they don’t have any idea about where they’re going with the game balance” ? They have been looking at meaningful data, considering options, and have announced changes. These changes were detailed, contained a lot of exact numbers, and were all explained. How the heck does that show they “don’t have any idea about where they’re going with the game balance” ?

      • insanetrasher

        I have a tendency to be too hard with devs I must admit. Actually it only means that they “had” no idea about weapon balance during game dev and early release. Now they do and I’m very happy with it actually.

        But, I find it mindblowing that during the whole development process no game designers nor QA testers noticed how totally useless were shotguns in PvE activities. I mean they didn’t only make a fine tuning on them, they literally doubled their damage. That’s huge (and that’s cool because we’ll get to try those finally) but why did they need to gather informations of 5 months of playing to realize that?

        There is a margin with a weapon type being “not where it should” and being totally useless in PvE, and it makes me a bit mad at people (mostly game designers) whose job are to make sure these kind of things do not happen.

        Anyways, their fixing it now and it’s good to see it, sorry for my negativity :p

        • enjaytee

          Good response. The difference between criticism and constructive criticism is huge.

  • Shamus666

    If bungie wants to make pulse rifles better increase the impact and RoF the 3 burst battle rifle from halo was beast So they should know the mechanics for that style of weapon. Why punish all the other weapons because they created the pulse rifles faulty from the beginning. PvE and PvP are two separate entities what works for one does not work for the other why does bungie continuously take two steps forward then two steps back with game. Can’t wait for mass effect 4 but until then this is the only thing close and it’s really not that close.

  • Picto

    Can we see a damage comparison of all the primary guns against majors and bosses in pve?
    Does anyone have a dps/min or anything?
    I feel that auto rifles still do considerably more then other primary’s in a sustained firefight due to less crit reduction against majors and bosses.

  • RockstarGFU

    I think your pretty spot on but

    @Shotguns

    Dealing double damage , drop off damage will balance out with range a bit, itll still drop from higgest damage, but i think we will see at like 7-10ft away targets taking current point blank damage

  • Tim

    This will be third major weapon buff to this game yet we still have terrible lag issues, no vault space and many other issues with this game. Working in SW development, its hard to swallow their priority list.

  • Petr Švancara

    Everything that Guardians should know about Destiny is here. Wtach the link below : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzopWRXK_r4
    – Halogen cz

  • Run_Forest_Run

    This game has a lot of easy fixes Bungie could, and should do to make game play better that don’t include tweaking weapon related ranges, impact, etc. One is make match making available for all game types (VOG, nightfall, etc). Because it is ridicules for those of us who don’t wish to whore ourselves out like some on Craig’s List in a personal ad just to join a group to play VOG. Why should I need to post on an app or a website I want to play VOG with my gamer tag? You want my home address and phone number too? Oh wait let me troll like a douche at the Tower to get someone to play. What are we 5? Add the damn match making already.

    Armor and weapon upgrades make this game redundant and tedious. Seriously, 18 Ascendant Shards to fully upgrade some Legendary Armor? Come on how about half that? Ascendant Energy same thing. I played 6 public events, got gold in all 6 and 1 shard. Middle fingers extended. Gold equals shards and energy, or I won’t waste my time playing them.

    Agree with Brandon. Why should I be forced to play Crucible, which I will admit has grown on me, slightly, to complete Exotic Bounties? I shouldn’t have to.

    Just make the game accesible to everyone for all types of game play on my terms. Not Bungie’s. Pretty simple. And cut down on the need to grind the same shit over and over and over just to upgrade a weapon or armor.

  • Parasitic Filth

    They could of had a community vote rather than relying on computer data to implement these changes. People love their guns, they’ve learned to become in tuned with these weapons, adopted entire methods of play surrounding their weapons, bought armour pieces solely for these weapons; and then Bungie has the gull to nerf people’s favorites, oh just because no one wants to pickup a pulse rifle. Well if picking up a pulse rifle wasn’t equivalent to jumping off the map in the Crucible, from launch, then maybe people would be more willing to use them. So they fixed it in a socialist fashion by nerfing another gun, subtracting from one to add to another. Why not make the pulse rifles on par with the auto rifles and leave the rest alone? I see these upcoming changes as a complete disaster. Let their shotgun modification serve as a testament to their reactionary changes. First they nerfed it across the board, now they’re seeing no one use a shotgun in PVE, maybe because only stupid guardians are suicidal; now they are fixing their screw up with this upcoming patch. It just goes to show how they break their own game, then scramble around like amateurs, with a fly-by-night fix. I have a sneaky suspicion that this latest auto rifle/hand cannon nerf will prove to be a haunting spector later on down the road.

  • raytzim

    Add an armor bonus while wielding shotguns! (in PVE) then one could go all boom stick on PVE, or more lifesteal options on shotguns, temporary bonus armor on kills, etc. That’s an easy fix towards the usefulness of shotguns in PVE, and I would love this because I like using them.

  • Hettar393899

    This is bullshit. “No, no, no. You’re not playing into the
    pigeon-holes we want you too! Use these guns if you’re THIS close, and
    THESE guns if you’re not.”. Basically, they want to force assault
    rifles into SMG roles and cover the fact they only wrote 2 maps for
    multiplayer that even warrant a sniper rifle. Since they made scout
    rifles in almost all cases pointless they have to now dick with everyone
    that took the time to get decent with a hand cannon.

    Way to lessen the game for the players that weren’t horse shit bungie! (that
    lack of a capital is not an error) Oh, and Ryan A, if you actually buy
    that crap you put after your nerf question in place of a real answer,
    you sir, are a fucking retard. Sincerely, that was the least valid
    response to a question I’ve seen outside a presidential debate, you
    jackass.

    Update: Upon further though, at least that broken ass POS loot
    generating will be less frustrating now, since ryan a and 3 idiot chimps
    decided to fuck up the weapons I still wanted but hadn’t gotten yet!
    Fucking tools.

    • You sir are a moron

      You know he doesn’t work for Bungie right? (That capital letter was on purpose)

  • Murat Ozcan

    For Red Death

    21 x 1.097 = 23.037 rounded down to 23. This will be the new body shot damage. This was 25 originally.

    23 x 9 = 207 , so yes, it will still kill anything if all 9 of your bullets from the 3 shots land. When the bullet damage was 25, you could afford to miss 1 bullet out of the 9 (200 damage), now you cannot.

    ____

    Currently it is 21 x 9 = 189damage, which is why the change was a huge nerf.

    Headshot multiplier is 1.5x, so current damage is 21 to body and 31.5 rounded up to 32 at the moment. Which makes 192 for 6 bullets: 2 headshots which will not kill almost anyone.

    _____

    Post the upcoming patch the headshot damage will be 35. This was 37 originally. 35×6=210. At 210 dmg you will be able to 2 shot anything with headshots. You could miss one of the bullets to the head and instead hit the body and still kill (198 dmg) .

    _____

    Now, for the comparison of damage with 3 little words with headseeker perk from the vendor. Currently 3 L W is 23 body, 34 head. It can kill in 2 full headshots (204). If you miss a headshot, the next 1 or 2 headshots hit for 37. So you could miss 1 bullet to the head and it will do 196 to 199 damage. Btw, there is no noticable dmg increase or maybe +1 from Glass half full perk – I know this from a randomly dropped 3 L W. I just see too many 34s… These are the only damage increasing perks besides agressive ballistics, which can only happen for Red Death.

    Post patch the numbers will be 25 and 37; same rof same impact as the original Red Death. You will see 40s after a body shot. With headseeker +3 dmg factored in, you could miss a total of 3 headshots (2 in one burst 1 in the other burst) and may still 2shot kill at 195 damage. 25+25+40 + 25+40+40 .

    With the original Red Death, you could miss 2 shots to the head; 4 heads 2 body shots and at 198 you could still 2 shot someone.

    ____

    In summary:

    – post the upcoming patch 3 L W will damage similar to the original Red Death with that same RoF, but will be able to miss 1 more shot to the head (3 body 3 head) and still 2 shot a target in pvp.

    – Red Death will regain 3 shot all shots to the body, or 2 head shot kill capability : but this time you can only miss 1 bullet to the head instead of 2, the rest will have to be headshots. Higher fire rate is there to compensate; imo OP trade.

    Buff up some stability and Red Death will be an A tier weapon next patch. Definitely moving up to B tier though.

  • Murat Ozcan

    What will happen to Vex Mythocast? TTK on it right now is absurd. 27 body 41 headshots. 5 shot kill on full auto. In comparison, suros headshots in focus fire hits 37 with much slower rate of fire. Auto rifles with similar range, stability, rof hit at 28 headshots. Why is no one talking about how OP this is at the moment, beats me. Maybe I am missing something – and lol, who cares about Range….