Why Can’t The Crucible Move Forward?

Contributing author: Anson C

Published on: Apr 1, 2015 @ 22:41

Iron Banner has ended, Inferno is back, and one can’t help but notice some of the more aggravating downsides that are associated with participating in the Crucible.

We’re going to discuss some of the issues that you may have encountered, and ways that the Crucible can be improved.

The Crucible can still be a very enjoyable experience though, despite the various annoyances that are inherent to it. As always, we encourage you to share your thoughts about the issues we’ll talk about below!

Special Ammo

Despite the recent patch, where starting ammo for special weapons was reduced, and shotgun/fusion rifle range was reduced, it is still entirely possible for people to run around with a shotgun as if it were a primary weapon. Bungie perhaps underestimated the prevalence of Special ammo from kills and crates, and the result was a playing field that behaves more or less the same.

We will admit that relying solely on a secondary weapon is a dubious strategy at best, but many Guardians see an unusually high rate of success when combined with high mobility builds. If this is the vision Bungie has for its PvP experience, all that we can do is hope it results in a positive experience for the players.

However, Bungie’s own feedback and patches have indicated they would like to see the metagame shift away from rampant secondary abuse, and we have to assume that they were playing cautious with these initial changes. High-powered, rage-inducing secondaries like the Felwinter’s Lie make this issue all the more pressing as we near our second expansion.

destiny crucible feedback

So what are our options for remedying this? Well, there are two ways to disincentivize special use. Given how such weapons are intended to be ‘power’ weapons, perhaps removing all special ammo at spawn, and/or lowering the frequency at which special ammo crates spawn, would help Guardians learn to use their primary weapons as often as their namesake suggests.

Other than creating this scarcity to make shots count, Bungie could curtail the effectiveness of the more powerful Special weapons, so that even with effectively unlimited ammo, the damage that can be done is minimal – but this is likely not the best option.

The nerfs to fusion rifles and shotguns haven’t been unreasonable, and it’s clear Bungie would prefer to leave their weapons alone in lieu of changing the way special ammo is conserved or earned in the Crucible. We anticipate this route to be productive and ideal for the players – eventually.

The Crucible team wants to change the way ammo crates dictate the flow of a battle.

No one wants to see their favorite weapon nerf’d to obscurity, and most of us would be willing to forgo never needing to switch weapons if it means that they stay the weapons we know and love.

Map Design

Map design is arguably the aspect of the Crucible (and Iron Banner) that requires the most improvement, especially for those that consistently play Control. To have a team spawn at the beginning of a match at an inherent disadvantage, simply because of the distance to an advantageous Control point, is easily one of the more unfair aspects of playing the mode.

Perhaps the biggest offender is Blind Watch, where spawning near A will mean that you have to fight through various bottlenecks to be able to seize any promising momentum. The same problem plagues the Shores of Time, where spawning at C will give your team easy access to the neutral point and easily defensible positions.

Indeed, it can be argued that every single map has an ideal “2-point-capture” strategy that one team has a better shot at grabbing first, simply because of the luck of the draw. Bungie has attempted to balance a couple of these maps, by altering spawn points and zone location, but the results have only maintained the status quo at best, and made things worse in some cases.

blind watch map flaws

Granted, the spawn points for Guardians getting back into the fray aren’t directly tied to the control points themselves, but more often than not, the loss of a control point is enough to flip the spawn locations.

Veterans know these tricks, and thus understand how crucial certain zones are to ensuring victory. A savvy pre-made team will always have an edge over an uncoordinated pickup group. Thus, winning consistently is not just a matter of skill.

This element of strategy should be a welcome & dynamic factor to consider in most matches, but unfortunately Control will retain the ritual of crossing your fingers as Blind Watch loads until the zone locations and spawn system is carefully evaluated.

Thankfully, the maps included in the Dark Below are largely free of this problem, though they are not included in the standard rotation for the Crucible and are unavailable to those who couldn’t afford or haven’t otherwise bought the DLC.

Rewards and Bounties

Compared to the bounties for PvE, the bounties for PvP are significantly harder, or at least more time consuming. Since Destiny’s launch, a variety of incredibly difficult Crucible bounties saturate the daily selection for available challenges.

Some of the more onerous ones include Never See You ComingElectrocutioner, Stopping Power, and No Riding Zone. They place an undue pressure on Guardians to pull off absurd feats of skill, especially compared to the easily available experience that can be had from completing Vanguard bounties. Anyone who routinely completes the Crucible bounties knows which ones that aren’t worth it – so why hasn’t Bungie acknowledged this?

The rewards are also much sparser and less useful when compared to other content such as Strike playlists. Engrams, both Legendary and Rare, are few and far between, and there is no reliable method for ensuring any reward at all. Yes, you’re guaranteed a certain amount of glimmer, but it’s certainly an unreliable way to earn it because it’s such a negligible amount.

To add insult to injury, the occasional Exotic that pops up on the rewards feed is assigned completely arbitrarily to any player, regardless of how they performed in the previous match. All of these archaic, RNG-dictated methods of ‘rewarding’ the time invested in Crucible make it difficult to rationalize participation in the Crucible outside of the pure enjoyment to be gleaned from the game itself.

It is counter-intuitive to invalidate individual effort by refusing to acknowledge it within the game.  Iron Banner introduced a path to rewarding gear and – surprise – it has been very well received. We have to wonder when Crucible is going to follow suit.

destiny pvp crucible feedback

As far as the bounties go, a simple remedy would be to simply increase the bounty rewards to match the difficulty and time spent on a bounty, or to make the bounties a little easier. For example, even one Fusion Rifle Spree is tricky to pull off, and the bounty requirements should reflect this difficulty. Furthermore, some of these more difficult feats could also reward Glimmer.

As far as rewards go, keeping the random nature of the rewards is perhaps the fairest method to distribute rewards, but increasing the chances of getting good rewards based on performance would at least give an incentive to perform well. It is understandable that Bungie would have some trepidation about rewarding the best players with the best gear, thus increasing the chance that they remain “the best,” but these fears are now unfounded in the light of Destiny’s evolution and the amount of players with several top-tier Exotics and level 36 Light Gear.

There’s no reason now to not provide some system wherein placing in the Top 3 rewards something at least marginally useful. Ascendant materials, extra Glimmer, a higher chance at an Exotic/Legendary, extra rep – all of these ideas have been floated around as simple to implement and conducive to a more enjoyable competitive Crucible experience.

This is to say nothing of implementing a ranking system, which is an idea for another article entirely.

Super Abundance

While Supers are an integral part of PvE, their place in PvP is more questionable. The ability to instantly or consecutively kill several Guardians with minimal effort is undeniably a game-changer at any point in a match. Timely and judicious use of these powers can even turn the tide in a closely contested battle or snatch a last-second victory from the jaws of defeat.

But is this power against the spirit of competition? An average player possesses the same chance to score a multi-kill as a skilled player if the conditions are right, so is this truly fair?

In a sense, no. Although Supers extend killstreaks just as frequently as they end them, their use as a “panic” button serves as a deterrent to the most hardcore of players running rampant over the rest of the field.

Supers are the best way for less skilled players to stop more skilled players, and to absolutely clear a zone in Control, but more often than not it seems to be more of a get-out-of-jail-free card.

destiny crucible review

For this reason, the consternation that we feel when being “cheap-shotted” by a random, errant, or otherwise lucky Super is just as valid. It’s hard to strike a balance between rewarding players for doing well, and not punishing the experience for those who won’t ever soar to as high of heights.

The fact also remains that it is very hard to counter most of the Supers, so it is no surprise that being killed by a Super feels undeserved, especially if you are the only victim.

So what can be done about this? Well, if Supers were less prevalent – perhaps by reducing the Super energy gained by killing enemies in the Crucible, so that at best only one Super can be used during a match – at the very least it would be more flattering if someone on the other team decides to waste their Super on just you.

Heavy ammo exists as a similar threat – a potent piece of firepower that you can often score easy kills with, and Bungie has seen fit to reduce its role in the Crucible.

Could Supers use a similar adjustment? With the addition of Inferno modes, it seems as though it’s only a matter of time before the element that Supers can often bring is curtailed in some sort of match variant. Bungie could then use response to this as a litmus test for how people feel about Supers in the Crucible at large.

Crucible’s Destiny

Crucible has perplexingly remained somewhat static since Destiny began. Small things have been added and adjusted here and there, but the core experience is largely unchanged. This has proved both a positive and negative factor in how we enjoy it today.

We know what to expect from the Crucible, but we’re not fully satisfied with it. Iron Banner has been a highlight, and Inferno is a promising step toward some variety, but the weaknesses of the Crucible are still all too real.

Thankfully, it is a very fun diversion from Destiny’s PvE and there’s lots of fun to be had there. Within the framework of Destiny’s PvP experience is the potential for a wildly successful Crucible design, and all that remains is to take the first step forward in making it a reality.

Do you agree with these suggestions? What would you like to see in the future? Let us know your ideas!


I’m aWrySharK, your resident Exotic guru and lover of all things min/max. At PlanetDestiny, my perfectionism is no longer simply a matter of form over function.


  • ICBM44

    I like supers the way they are, its one of the best parts of Destiny and already is graded based on time to recharge for player rank and landing skillful shots. The ability to lay waste to so many potential guardians at once is one of the perks that keeps lower skilled players in the journey to improve their crucible gaming over time and just adds to the badass of being a level 31. So you’re a level 32 guardian holding a point in a highly contested control match down to the last several seconds and a lowly level 21 guardian lays waste to you and half your team for the victory. All’s fair in love and war, and I love this game, and you could have seen it coming and put two in his obsidian mind before he pulled it off.

  • Deadwing

    I think bungie cant just please the close quarter combat lovers. (A.K.A Titans and “Shotgunners”) And need to balance the maps a bit more, cause one gamemode cant just have one type of map. Combined weapons playlist have to be permanent if they think that way, if not, just one half of the players would be satisfied, and the other half (Mid Range and long combat lovers) would be forgotten.

  • xxMasipoten

    They have to introduce trials of osiris right now or with HoW, but quick.

    • I’m 99.9% sure it’ll be coming with HoW

    • xxMasipoten

      Also, is unacceptable that when people have lag they come out better than you, is like having lag is a perk for them, its ridicoulous and annoying.

  • Time Spiral

    How about location basing crucible, if your not in the US its just laggy as fuck.

  • Aruhcim

    re: Special Weapons

    I agree that while I notice that the ammo has been reduced, I don’t think it’s made enough of a difference. But that isn’t the biggest factor. The biggest factor is the map design. The maps being so small is really the biggest culprit. The maps simply shove close quarter combat down our throats on most maps.

    re: Rewards And Bounties

    As a predominately PvP player, I want to be rewarded more for PvPing. The problem is that more rewards will attract more people…the wrong people. I already get enough horrible teammates as it is, I don’t need any more. Do I really want more AFKers in PVP? Not really. So yes, right now people have little reason to PvP outside of just wanting to. But I don’t think that’s really a bad thing given the possible consequences of increasing the rewards.

    re: Supers

    If it were up to me, I would remove supers from the Crucible. However this simply isn’t going to happen because supers help casual players get kill again more skilled players. The other thing is that super help differentiate the classes and subclasses which is important. I think a good solution would be make it so that orbs do not drop in Crucible. This would reduce supers while also preventing Defender exploits.

  • Evo

    Excellent article.

    My gripes w crucible:

    1. Net code. It’s garbage. The lag is unforgivable in some cases, and as someone mentioned, often gives an advantage to the person lagging. I’ve never experience this in any other game. Even with a good connection, there’s still a negligible amount of ping, especially in close quarters encounters, and double especially when melee’s are used. How many times have you melee’d someone and then they melee you after they died, or vice versa?

    2. Matchmaking. Weighted teams. I played reach from it’s debut, basically until this game came out. I played with groups and with out groups, and the experience was relatively similar either way. Sometimes you’d get a bad team, but very rarely would you be paired against a pre-grouped team when you were just playing pick ups. In Destiny, if you play pick ups, you will lose, repeatedly. And you’ll feel very frustrated when you have multiple 6k+ point games that you still lose.

    3. Map lay outs. The article couldn’t have said it better. There are 3 to 4 maps off the top of my head that the initial spawn contributes largely to the end result of the match. It’s as simple as controlling the spawn and making sure your teammates don’t venture too deep into enemy territory, and you just wait for people to jump in the window on Firebase, or come through the door on Blindwatch. Winning.

    4. Shoulder charge. shoulder charge. shoulder charge. Nerf it. It should not one hit. Doesn’t the titan overload melee 1-hit already? Titans essentially have an energy sword lunge at their disposable every time they sprint, that they can use in the air, and CAN CHANGE DIRECTION WITH. Cmon man. The only thing I think I find more annoying is the Warlocks homing melee. You don’t have to be looking in the general direction of an enemy, just mash and HIGH FIVE THAT M’ER F’ER IN THE FACE.

    PS if you use a fusion rifle, we’re not friends.

  • J.T

    I don’t see the problem with Blind Watch. If you end up at A, don’t bum rush for B. Stay right, go over the roof, and take C. You can then come up behind the enemy at B, and catch them off guard since they are expecting you to come from the opposite direction. That said, a few maps do need to be tweaked in that regard, but it’s hardly a pressing issue as long as you play smart.

    Special Ammo definitely needs to be reduced. I wouldn’t mind seeing special drops become as rare as heavy ammo. That would pretty much fix the issue.

    Supers are fine. The last thing Destiny needs is to become more generic by stripping them down into killstreaks.

    Bounties definitely need to be given higher rewards, but I’m fine with RNG for the most part. I wouldn’t mind giving larger glimmer rewards for medals earned during the match, but as far as top players getting a higher chance at drops, that would defeat the purpose of RNG in the first place.

  • Baryn Alex Dumas

    With supers, as a Titan, suppressor grenade handles everything.

    • Christian

      Amen, haha. There’s nothing funnier than watching the pain in a bladedancer’s face when his Super vanishes early.

      • Chillibean

        Funny that you can see his face….when everyone is wearing a helmet, you twit

        • Christian

          It’s a figure of speech 😉 It’s a reflection on their absolution of defeat that refers to as “The Look on their face”.

        • Holy Mackerel

          Whoa now. I get the feeling someone is a grumpy hunter judging by the unnecessary name-calling. 😉

        • Red Skyward

          *cough cough* someone obviously doesnt like titans *cough*

  • Jb

    The crucible has many changes that could be made
    Guardians do not drop Orbs of Light from Super kills
    Super energy is only gained from kills/assists
    Special ammo locations could be moved to specific vantage points on maps
    Special ammo could also be used to give the weaker spawn points a crutch or balance out the spawns. If a team spawns at A and the ammo boxes are easier to get to than C it helps them and also forces the players at C to move from a holed up position
    players do not spawn with special ammo
    heavy ammo drop once/twice per match with more time between
    Heavy ammo boxes moved to middle locations of map to promote a competetive grab for heavy ammo
    less players get ammo when a box is picked up 2 players from one box
    Longer spawn time between deaths
    Ranked Playlist for each gametype
    Team on Team match ups/Pickup group match ups
    Private lobbies at the very least

  • archied

    How about if super kills in crucible dropped orbs of light for the opposing team? Makes it more of a tactical decision.

    • Christian

      That’s a very interesting point. I do think Destiny has the potential for some far more adventurous game modes. The modes at the moment are very generic. I’d be more than interested in some advanced game modes like “Invasion” modes from Halo Reach. or some objective specific maps with some crazy interactions.

  • Alex Howden

    My points:
    1. Rewards
    I understand it RNG but lets face it, if you want rare and legendary you just go do Vanguard Roc, I think there needs to be a better placement of rewards, ie. Complete a match and win your going to get 2 rare, lose and your going to get 1 rare + anything else you would normally get on top of that. Basically give people a reason to win but still give rewards for trying. Also the fact that people who get K/D of 0.2 getting exotics is a little bit unfair. To at least be eligible for a Legendary or Exotic I think a K/D of 1.0 is a fair statement, 1 kill to every 1 death isn’t an extremely hard feat even if your a casually and yes some times you have a bad day and not be able to do that but lets face it, even pros suffer that some times and it’s ok to have a crap day every once and awhile.
    2. Supers
    Article couldn’t have said it any better, I still dream for the day that a No Super Mode comes out. I don’t think they need to be removed but they need to be looked at, 4 Titans + warlock and hunter = Not Fair and No fun. I think a limitation of sort is in order. 1-2 super per game?
    3. Maps
    As the Article said there are just some maps that no matter what way you look at them just are not fair, Firebase Delphi is probably my worst offender, NEVER seen a game where the team that holds C and the other hold A and B win, the only way I seen it work is if you mange to flip the map. Blind Watch is the exact same, There needs to be a massive look at on those type of maps, often they have the same problem though which is the point are almost in a dead strait line or that there a clear give away that someones there, ie. on Firebase Delphi I point blank refuse to go through the big round doors, the second you go near them you alert every person on the enemy team that your about to be arrive from their, it results in the easiest kill ever. They need to look at both the environment of the map and what it tells you and the position of certain aspects on the map such as heavy ammo and spawns right next to it.
    4. Matchmaking
    I really stand by this, MATCHMAKING SUCKS!!!! the idea that it balanced it but utter bull. When both sides have completely no coordination or teams and a game can result in the score of 20’000-4’000 we have a problem. Surely something like K/D or game history or anything else in relation to crucible is record and could be used to figure out good match making of teams? something to give a slight indication of skill. If I’m going against a group of 6 and I’m just by myself like every other person on my team, yeah I expect to loose, what ever but when every one is random like that their needs to be some clearer matchmaking choices.
    I personal like the crucible, I enjoy the hell out of blasting someones brains out. It almost mediating, but it a really downer when I have stuff like that happening and it can deter from the actually enjoyable experience, that is only a small portion of stuff, (let not mention lag, bounties and all the other flaw because we’d be hear awhile) Bungie really needs to have a good look at it to make sure it stays alive in the future.

    • xxMasipoten


      • Alex Howden

        and that good sir is why I believe that people should have a K/D of 1.0 to at least be eligible for something of that quality, you who got a K/D of 2.2 get no acknowledgement for that effort and skill and a person that died a grand total of 14 TIMES!!! should be acknowledged for let face it, doing nothing.

        • The way I see it, it’s a consolation prize for being made into Swiss cheese by the other guardians. It was so aggravating trying to get the “25 more kills than deaths” step of the Invective Exotic Bounty.

          • Alex Howden

            And that why I think that just for complete the match your guaranteed a rare and need a K/D of 1.0 to be eligible for a Legendary or Exotic. I agree with the fact we shouldn’t give loot to just the best player but I think they need to be rewarded for the effort they have put in to get to that level of skill, I don’t want to spend 3 months of practice on something that I won’t get any benefit out of and at the same time I think we also need to acknowledge people who are just beginning, I don’t think we should completely undermine those who are at least trying to get better and putting in the effort.
            P.S “it’s a consolation prize for being made into Swiss cheese by the other guardians” that comment would be so funny if it weren’t so true, personal I found that part of Invective fairly easy, I just played defensively but the fact I had Thorn, Found Verdict and Corrective Measure probably made my life fairly easy.

          • Probably. d=
            I can understand trying to balance both ends of the “rankings.”

          • xxMasipoten

            I know, it makes no sense at all, plus 2,2 its not that good but they doubled our score that match we lost terribly, THANKS TO THAT GUY BASICALLY, so it really was hard to keep a good k/d and this guy gets A LEGENDARY?!?! F*** THAT

      • My hero!!!!

  • Moppin44

    How about taking some of those difficult bounties and attaching PvP awards there? Something like doing the exotic bounty quests but it would be available daily and with RNG rewards. Good PvPers can get them done in 2-3 matches and people like me it would take 10 matches.

  • Hanayo Asa

    I had one guy yesterday that used Pocket Infinity.. as his main weapon for the entire match ! That just shows how much the PvP, especially the ammos, is broken in so many ways..

    • asdf

      Pocket Infinity was hit by the fusion rifle nerf pretty hard. I applaud the guy for using something other than Felwinter’s or an exotic hand cannon.

  • insanetrasher

    Supers are the reason why I don’t take crucible seriously. Introduce a mode without those and I’ll probably try to get into it “”competitively””. The shooting mechanics are tight for the most part, the maps a nicely designed for the most part as well, but supers are making the PvP feel like a “casual fun festival”.

    • Above there is a great comment from a “casual” player, but this is a concise example of someone who wants a more competitive experience, which is why I thought it prudent to address Supers at least in part. Thanks for weighing in.

  • p3los

    Blink, slide, Felwinters


    Thx Bungie.

    • Bob

      I think the map designs should shoulder some of the blame as well. There is no incentive for trying to be a sniper on the majority of the maps

      • ForeverLaxx

        There’s little to no incentive to -camp- as a sniper is what you meant to say. There are plenty of snipe lines on most maps, but staying there all game gets you killed. Deal with it and be more mobile.

        • Bob

          There are people who camp without snipers, however, majority of people are bitching about shotguns when the majority of the maps cater to CQC. I mean if its there use it. The problem IMO isn’t the gun, or people who use blink. Its the maps. Nobody is gonna snipe on Anomaly or Asylum so what other options do you have? Fusion Rifles or Shotguns and everyone bitches about those weapons.

          P.S. I have no problem with my mobility.

          • ForeverLaxx

            Interesting that you mention Anomoly, as it has a rather strong sniper line that covers about 3 different directions and is very easy to defend if you pack a shotgun. I should know, since I used it and went 17/0 in the latest IB. Granted I was using a mid-range pulse rifle, but the distances I was killing people at would have been better suited for scouts or snipers.

            My point is the maps are about as sniper-friendly as they need to be. I don’t want to see yet another modern shooter turn into a camp-fest where everyone is using snipers and hiding in corners. We get enough of that when the map randomly lands on one of the few large maps with vehicles and turrets. No thanks.

    • metalman5150

      ^ This is the one thing that grinds my gears.
      When this starts happening to me, I go into camp mode.
      If you’re not winning, then you’re not camping, hard enough.

  • Maniacjdog

    How about a mode or change where you can just use your primary no special no heavy no super just your primary

    • Kyle Brazill

      That would be interesting, but on the other hand their are the exotic primary secondary weapons.

      • Password?

        Some people would still find a way to complain that other people have an advantage even when all “advantages” are removed.

  • varsityhacker

    Lag, Lag, Lag!! This is the biggest issue with Crucible hands down. Until this is fixed everything else is just noise. I just don’t get how 12 players on tiny maps can be that lagged. Blink jump needs to go as well, it’s total BS especially with a Shotty, I have a Hunter and Warlock and refuse to use it unless I am getting killed by the other team with it.

    • metalman5150

      Believer it or not, even with premium internet connections, extenuating factors such as weather, time of day and age of components in the infrastructure that delivers your connection, all affect your internet connection on a minute -to -minute basis.

      • Lag blows

        Believe it or not, even with premium internet connections, I never lag on Battlefield. That’s why I play those games for my PvP experience. Because it’s just way better not to lag.

        • metalman5150

          Touche’! Ideally, lag would never interfere with gameplay, but sadly, the PVP suffers, for some more than others.

          If ever I enter a capture point, and the enemy team fails to recognize my presence or I attempt to kill them but no damage is taken (ie..,, the lag is taking over), then I simply flee the area, in hopes that I’ll live to see another day.

          No joke, I’ve run to a capture point where two – three enemies converge and yet, none of them notice me. Of course my bullets do no harm, to them. Because of lag, no less.

  • Corey Bowtie Wray

    Make levels bigger, and make patrols pvp with higher rewards for completing objectives. 😉

    Also, I would like to play my missions with more than 3 people. The crucible I can understand, but what is the point of it if there is nowhere to practice with friends? Case in point, Halo’s custom matches. Make custom matches in the Patrol! ;D That way anyone can join and ruin the fun! Get flanked! Get jumped! It’s all fun anyways.

  • disqus_II3hdqihgc

    Pvp has always sucked! Now that there are less supers and less heavy the game is so boring I can’t stand to play at all. People will always b**** about how ever they get killed, so why not take away all the wepons and everyone can just meeting in the middle of the map and hug.

    • metalman5150


      • Chillibean

        This is cum…

  • Lagasaurus Rex

    Destiny’s PVP is a completely unbalanced joke…it’s fun some of the time, but the rewards (or lack there of) are complete shit. I get ~30 kills on average a control game with a 3.0-5.0 KD on average with the most control points caps on my team…and still get nothing for it most of the time. Why bother..

    Not to mention it’s riddled with problems…

    – Several wildy OP weapons
    – Many cheap cheap tactics that literally break the game/make it unplayable
    – Terribly unbalanced map designs
    – Insane lag in almost every game
    – It’s only fun with a team, because most people suck at it/are morons
    – etc, etc, etc.

    It’s all I have left to do in the game really and it’s not worth my time.

    Destiny is dead…last person out turn off the lights.

  • GalactaPug

    I’m a little nervous about increasing drop rates or giving good gear for winning, since it would encourage Crucible “farming” in the first case and people quitting before the match is over in the second. Since levels are disabled, theoretically the gear matters less.

    As for the super use, I remember playing Halo PvP and being so terrible I stopped trying altogether. The supers in Destiny make it possible to have some fun even if you suck, and it keeps the feel casual and fun rather than super competitive. That being said, having alternate modes with less or even more super use would be a great, easy to add addition.

    • metalman5150

      If my team is losing and the opposing team has a 10-kill streak guardian, I am saving my super and hunting that guardian down. Time to end his slaughter.

  • Bungie has introduced to many variables into PvP. Any attempt to fix the crucible is a loss cause because they can never find the balance that will work with all the weapons, character types and perks. Bungie has also openly stated that they fear making changes because they can’t predict all the possible outcomes. This has driven the player community mad while they struggle to play a game that feels broken. Bungie admits that the crucible has problems, but takes months to release a fix. As soon as the fix hits players complain that it really didn’t fix anything, and the cycle repeats.

    • metalman5150

      Makes you appreciate the fact that Bungie does anything, considering that it is impossible to fix anything & everything. Let alone, keep everyone happy with the results.

      It’s rather common, when fixing a problem, that another issue will arise.

  • negro1234564245778

    I’d appreciate a hardcore mode of sorts. No radar. No supers. No heavy. Special ammo spawns twice in the middle of the map.

    The reason most people have a higher kd in rumble and skirmish them in control or clash is simply because of an abundance of heavy and supers. If you can kill 5 of my window licking teammates you get to nova bomb their top guy who would have otherwise killed you.

    It would be a glorious game mode where the tip top guys just stay at the top and don’t die. You could even reward based on kills. 20+ guaranteed blue engram. 30+ guaranteed legendary. 40+ exotic armor engram. And 50+ is an exotic weapon.

    Also, iron banner rep increases throughout the week. This should happen in hardcore mode too. 125 faction rep per won match on Monday would surely have me paying more crucible.

  • metalman5150

    Great Article, Joel!

    I put roughly 500 hours into Destiny before spending one minute in the PVP.
    The Crucible is far from perfect, but unlike Call of Duty MP, I never really find myself cursing at other other Guardians. The shot guns that mow me over, will draw an evil eye, but I have never thrown my controller at the wall. Even if my team is being wiped all over & I am sporting a .30 k/d ratio, I still have the attitude that I can turn it around in the next match.

    TLDR – at least it aint call of duty’ multi player. lol.

  • Ugh

    I hope one day, they learn that PvP and PvE cannot coexist in the same game. If I want to play PvP, I go play Battlefield. Or CoD, but not this steaming mess. Crucible isn’t fun, it’s tedious. They make changes to the “balance”, but all they do is change which weapon is the one everyone uses. They should make it it’s own game, and take it out of the next Destiny incarnation, or completely separate the weapon performance between the two modes.

  • TDUNN79

    I feel that Bungie should make a Crucible mode where only primary weapons may be used. No special or heavy ammo at start or in crates mid-match, that way those of us who DO want to use our primary’s to the fullest effect can in a comfortable manner.

    Sure there are weapons like the Vex Mythoclast, Universal Remote, and No Land Beyond (Which is sub-par at best) but the Universal Remote is rarely used in favor of say Hawkmoon or the Suros Regime. You may say the Vex Mythoclast is overused and is OP but that weapon is gotten from Hard Mode VoG and is treated more like an Auto Rifle if we’re honest.

  • shabashaly

    Great article some great points were made. I feel that especially in control that they almost force you to use the shotgun/fusion rifle as a primary due to the fact that some maps do not offer any good attack points for people who hang back and pick people off trying to take a control point. The maps are designed to be a fast pace rush gamestyle. I do think that the super is fun and unique and adds a bit of excitement to the battle. I do feel they should get rid of the orbs and maybe nerf some of the supers the titan smash is just way to overpowered compared to the other supers

    What i would like to see is more game modes. Who didnt like swat from halo imagine allowing players to use hand cannons only no radars no health regen. And maybe have loadout specific game modes

    But my biggest problem with crucible is that in the course of three hours playing crucible i play blind watch 10 times and the two venus maps only once. I do enjoy blind watch but 4 times in a row is annoying they should have some type of map voting system limiting the amount of times a map can be played consecutively. Also for people who have the dlc allow us to have a selection for all the maps. I dont want to go to orbit to play select the dlc maps play only those for an hour get bored of the three maps then switch to regular maps to get bored of playing blind watch and firebase delphi 20 times

  • Adam Stockett

    I’d really like to see some different game types. I really enjoyed the gun games from COD specifically, Gun Game and Sharpshooter. Cycling through exotics and everyone having a new random gun every 45 secs would be amazing. If nothing else my characters would finally get to shoot Suros Regime.

  • ForeverLaxx .

    The maps are designed well, it’s the control point and spawns that need work. I hate having to kill the same player 4 times while neutralizing a point just to inevitably fail. When the situation is reversed, I invariably spawn on the complete opposite side of the map, giving up a control point for free.

    Also, killing guardians from behind is simple. Grenades, rockets, and melees are your friends.

    • Phoenix

      I find that killing guardians from behind is simple…as long as you aren’t trying to kill guardians from behind…just let it happen on its own

      • ForeverLaxx

        More often than not, Rockets will kill from behind if you use use a “dumb fire” launcher. I know most people run Tracking or Proximity Detonation, which might contribute to the view that the bounty is difficult.

        I know it doesn’t say much to claim to be “good” with Rockets, as they’re designed to let anyone kill someone, but in a game where tracking/proxy rockets are preferred, maybe people forgot how to aim those things.

        Plus, the new Inferno map mode is likely the best place to get that bounty done, as getting behind someone unaware is much easier.

  • Ugh

    Bounties that require you to play the most tedious, and broken part of the game just so you can have an exotic also really sucks. Seriously. The best fix for Crucible would be to remove it.

  • Walter Nelson Yarbrough

    Okay. I was cool until I got to the whole “super abundant” jive. To honest, I cannot agree with you on that. The whole theory is, in my eyes, is invalid.

    First off, assuming it’s the less skilled person pulling out the “get out of jail super” is a wrong assumption. How do I know? Because I am the less skilled player.

    I have been getting better at shooters, when I was a complete rookie, I would, at mossy, get one super in a match. On top of that, I would hold onto it because I would never know when to use it. Especially because I play as a hunter, so I needed a bit more skill to actually kill than a Titan using fist of havoc or Warlock using Nova Bomb.

    I believe it’s is the more skilled players pulling off the “get out of jail supers” an not the less skilled. The reason being is that they get their supers more often than not. Plus, you have the kill streak factor that comes in. It only feels like they are less skilled because it’s kind of cheap to do it in order to avoid death. Plus, I also see this as an excuse people use because they got beat by someone in that manner. You don’t know how many times I have gotten fist of havoc by some guy who I was about to kill and they were on top the leader boards.

    Supers are a fun and integral part of the game. Any hardcore player who is upset about dying because people saved themselves with a super are just whining in my opinion. Yes it is frustrating to die by a person saving themselves with a super but everyone does it. Especially the ones who are mad about it.

    I have learned there are many people who look for ways to “get help” in the game in order to feel like their lack of skill is due to a function of the game and not because someone is better than you.

    Again, I suck because I suck and people are just better than me.

    Also let me add, I am not in any way saying you are any of these people. Though you are the author, I know much of what you are writing comes from the broad opinion of the populace.

    The supers are game changers but they don’t break the game. That ability for the less skilled to at least get kills is needed. For hardcore players to be upset at this feature is absolutely dumb. I promise you, if you want a way for less skilled players to never come back to play pvp, then lessening the rate of supers will surely do it.

    There are a mass of players who don’t even go to PVP because they are not good or because they just enjoy the leisure of PvE over the hassle of pvp.

    Take away the one thing that gives them a chance to not feel completely useless will turn more people away from crucible.

    Then, the problem of “get out of jail” supers will be there all the time because people will save themselves with it everytime.

    No don’t make supers less frequent. There is nothing wrong with it. Don’t turn the game into call of duty. It’s a sci-fi fantasy game with guns. It’s the draw of the game and in pvp. No never feel have less fun because I got supered at the last second. Ita actually refreshing to know “hey, I almost got you” mostly because I am bad.

    I don’t want nerfs anymore. I only want to play the game with fixes and nerfs aren’t fixes. They make the game less fun.

    Lastly, on my super long rant, the more pressing issues of crucible are the ones you put first. Map size and advantages in spawns based on map design are the most pressing issues in my mind. At least for control. Reducing special weapon ammo is….okay I guess but if they did that, they might have to change Thorn’s bounty a bit because it’s going to be that much harder to get. Yes it’s hard for me to do it because my pvp skills lack and the weapon selection for me is bad so specials are all I have. I am also being very hard headed because I am trying to do it with a hunter who does not have a void class. So sue me, I want to become strong using my favorite class lol but still, it’s a difficult bounty for the less skilled and would be even more of a class specific bounty at this rate. At least for right now.

    • An excellent perspective from a more casual player who just wants to have fun. I hope you didn’t feel I was outright saying “Supers must be nerf’d”. I have heard complaints and was theoretically addressing potential “solutions” if it transpired that Destiny’s playerbase was dissatisfied with Supers’ role. This is why I proposed that a new gametype experiment with a reduced prevalence of Super Energy, so that feedback to this could be aggregated and evaluated fairly.

      • Ryan Jordan

        I agree with both of your arguments on this point because supers are a tricky thing to deal with.

        Orbs of light can be controlled so that teams can push the envelope of how often they can use supers. Most players get a few supers per match, good players get more, good teams get the most. Sometimes when I go on a long streak of kills and get killed by a noob titan fisting the ground, or I activate golden gun and watch the warlock throw his novabomb just to kill me I get really annoyed. But I’ve been that player too, and just dying all match to the sniper you can’t see or the shotgun bouncer blinking all over the map is no fun at all.

        They have inferno. I don’t really want to play it because I like the supers and minimap. I hope if they do offer a new playtype to “tone down” supers, they don’t simply institute it on all versions of control, because then it only satisfies one perspective in the debate.

    • insanetrasher

      You are 100% right that Supers are a huge reason for making Destiny feels very different from other PvP shooters.

      That said, I’m pretty sure that a good deal of players (maybe not the majority) would enjoy having a mode that has less or no supers at all (I am one of those).

      I play shooters since the Quake 3 Arena era and when I get to use or get killed by a super its just.. super weird..

      I don’t think there should be an option to have less/no supers on every game type. Just a stand alone mode be it clash/rumble/whatever with it deactivated. Its not like they’d have to work weeks on pulling this out since they would be basically removing stuff from the game. But there are dozens of other things more important than this in the whole game (PvE included) so..

    • mghia

      In response with your comment about Warlock and Titan supers not taking as much skill to get kills with; the hunter supers are actually easier to kill with than Warlock and Titan. (I have a 30+ character on each class and am not particularly biased to any one class). The supers that both Warlock and Titan have are much shorter range than Golden Gun, and are actually pretty flippin’ difficult to aim. While Arc Blade is the uber-short range super, it’s pretty easy just to spam melee with it and get kills. Golden gun is just point and shoot. Now that I’ve gotten that out of the way (sorry, but it just bugs me when people say that the supers of one class are OP and that another takes way more skill to use. I’m not denying the validity of Hunter supers being difficult to use EFFECTIVELY, but in all honesty they are the easiest just to pop and get one or two kills with.) Your point about people whining about saving themselves with Supers is valid, but I’d agree with the writer about Supers being too hard to counter. The shield granted by some supers is a bit too powerful ( maybe they could decrease that to 75% damage reduction) and as for balancing GoldenGun, maybe a fire rate reduction could take place. Good points, though.

      • Actually, I find using Nova Bomb fairly easy to aim with; I’ve missed less with practice. But Radiance? Not very effective in PvP, even with, say, Heart of the Praxic Fire.
        I just got my Hunter to 20–and with Legendary/Exotic, he bumped up to 28–but I haven’t taken him into the Crucible just yet. But just in PvE, using the Hunter supers aren’t so easy. Arc Blade is fun, but you have get up close–and doesn’t always kill with one swipe. Golden Gun can work from a distance, but l kinda’ feel like the Walter the OP in that I suck…at sniping, at least. Either I miss from afar, or get close and risk injury (see Arc Blade).
        We’ll see how I feel them out in the Crucible, but as far as making changes to the Crucible, the only one I’m all for is easing up on the bounties. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten any of the sprees needed for any bounty.

    • Rouge Spartan

      Maybe they can create a “hardcore” mode in which supers do not generate period in that playlist thus pleasing both sides of this arguments

  • Password?

    Perhaps I missed something but Heavy drops three times in a match that lasts long enough. It sure doesn’t feel like it’s been diminished. As for super use, I actually feel flattered when someone uses a super against just me. It sucks, but hey, you think I’m that much of a threat, go for it. I’ll just gun you down when you don’t have a super ready the next five or more times I see you.

    • The changes that were implemented for Heavy ammo drastically diminished Heavy’s role in the Crucible. It is no longer possible to pick up any amount of Heavy from a fallen Guardian. Before, certain chains of killing with the right perks could guarantee Heavy for over half the match. As Shoot to Loot was also reduced in potency, this is the “reduced role” to which I was referring.

      • Password?

        Ahhhh, thank you for clarifying. Yes, I agree not being able to pick up heavy from downed opponents has made things tougher, for the better.

  • Hey everyone, I’m one of the contributing authors for this article. I want to thank you all for your constructive feedback so far. To clarify, I am not advocating any particular change, nor am I – for the most part – claiming certain elements are outright unbalanced. My “Super” section seems to have drawn particular ire, which I understand. What I attempted to do with this article is outline certain common points of contention among various demographics of the playerbase. I explain why Bungie may have included these and their common consequences among the hardcore and casual. I see the Crucible as a dialectic, in which there is a natural push and pull in player satisfaction to implementing changes. My attempt was not to prescribe a “cure” for a “diseased” product, but rather to highlight why positing that the Crucible is either “great” or “bad” is a false dichotomy.

    You may disagree with one, two, or even all of my points. This goes to show how diverse Destiny’s PvP clientele is; it has to satisfy the hardcore and casual alike, and naturally there will be – erm – casualties. To this end, I personally love to hear what you all have to say and I’m encouraged by the conversation I find in this thread.


    • metalman5150

      Joel –

      I like the way you presented the material!
      Also, I like that you understand dichotomy.

      Keep up with good articles like this and I will continue reading them!

    • War RiderOfRuin

      I appreciate the article and your specific response and I read your sites articles regularly. I firmly believe the best way to fix crucible is simply add some variety. A mode with no supers, fine, but something like capture the flag would be better, how about a random playlist where I could get any mode, or any map. It seems the choice for fixing crucible so far has been simply to remove things, remove ammo, remove radar, nerf everything, just some more variety please, I think this is the only shooter that takes all their competitive multiplayer tools and segregates them so harshly, and yes I do see both sides of the rewards argument, personally though I do feel less inclined to play crucible because I earn a lot less in game rewards for my time.

  • Ryan Jordan

    I agree with most what you said, but the only thing I would bring up is you left out Trial’s of Osiris. A lot of the concerns you bring up could be solved by a system that requires an invitation to join (earned by skill/accomplishment and maybe time spent) and only allows you to keep succeeding if you are good enough.

    I think the problem is differentiating between rewarding someone for skill and rewarding someone to help them catch up.

  • Uncle Dad

    The crucible drop rate reflects what the drop rate should be for all game modes. A rarity. Nothing in Destiny is special. Everyone has everything and everybody looks the same.

  • Andrews Morrison

    People need to stop being babies. Play with the weapons you like. If we all have to rely on primary weapons them it becomes less about all and more about rate of fire.

    Fusion rifles have to charge up to fire. Usually resulting in one shot per encounter.
    That’s a handicap. Maybe players need to get bettter as opposed to complaining.

  • metalman5150

    As a Hunter Gunslinger, nothing is more damning than an incoming Titan Smash.
    As a Hunter Gunslinger, I have learned to double tap my Golden Gun when I see a Titan charging in. Too often, I will shoot once at a Titan, only to be dismantled immediately by his OP’d titan smash. Same thing with a Warlock; if the Warlock Supers, then one shot from a golden gun will not kill him.

    When I go into Crucible, I will immediately note the distribution of classes and if I am killed numerous time by a certain type of class (say Titan), then I will swap to my Titan, afterwards. It may have no effect on the outcome of the next match, but it least it changes my attitude / play style.

    • Mr Beerski

      And you don’t think the blade dancer is an unfair advantage for you hunters??? lol, I’m killed more by blade dancers than any other super.

  • P4leRider

    I agree with some of this. A couple issues I have.

    First, I’m not sure that changing special weapons is an answer to anything. Maybe I suppose? Yeah there are tons of people running around with Felwinter’s, but it’s not impossible to beat.

    On the flipside, nothing in this article even mentioned the AR nerf, which as far as I am concerned is one of the worst things that happened with the 1.1.1 update. Basically making AR’s all but obsolete. Do I still get killed by them in crucible? NOPE, or if I do it’s because some lvl 12 finished me off while my health is 3/4 of the way gone.

    Yep there’s lots of issues with the crucible, but I do still have fun with it. And enjoy leveling Crucible Rep and buying whatever I want with all the marks I have.

    • You make a good point regarding Auto Rifles. I’m a staunch believer that they are criminally underpowered, and indeed even were before 1.1.1. Bungie has chosen to nerf them for the Crucible’s benefit, knowing full well that this would make them increasingly irrelevant in PvE. Moreover, they overdid it and no one even runs Auto Rifles to great success in the Crucible now, either. I disagreed entirely with those changes and still do now.

      However, I didn’t mention them because I feel that’s a discussion for another article. Individual weapon balance is something that has its own philosophy and parameters, and with a recent change, it’s a somewhat non-starter to assume they’ll be switching back – Bungie has no history of quickly undoing their changes when it comes to Destiny.

      Spot-on, at any rate.

  • TheStackTrace

    While I agree that more time need be spent by Bungie making PVP more relevant and exciting, giving us more to choose from, etc., I do not think it is as broken as some folks. Just a couple of points pop out to me.

    Matchmaking is an absolute mess and needs to be addressed. Crucible is absolute fun when the teams are matched well, scores are spread out evenly, etc. Something as simple as grouping by K/D ratio would be awesome. As somebody gets better than the rest of t crop, their ratio becomes better and they get grouped with the next highest group.

    Spawn points are tough and while not impossible to overcome, should be looked at more aggressively as well. Maybe the team should not all spawn at the same point, maybe spawn points should be random for all players easing the chances of earlier and less predictable encounters, and actually having to think where they should head first.

    Shotguns are no more ridiculous than when everybody was using fusion rifles. Players that use them and get better with them should not be penalized for a style of play as unfortunate as it is to others. I agree with less secondary amo though, it would make the decision to use it a bit more of a decision and not a no brainer. One thing with shotguns was that damage was to be increased and range nerfed. All it takes is one anomaly weapon that everybody starts using to become abused. I do believe that range of a shotgun in the secondary slot should not be as great as it is on a few of them. Fusion rifles have a better range, but take time to charge, so it is a balance. shotguns need a slight look at in this regard.

    My last point is for drops. I think a better drop rate would be great, and leaving it random is fine, I have no issue with it, keep players not as good interested. in fact, increasing the drop rate and keeping it random would keep more players in until the end. I do believe some system where after so many Crucible ranks players are guaranteed some legendary or even an exotic item would be great. Give something that top players can chase as well.

  • kalicush

    Regardless of all the improvements that needs to be made to crucible, the two main things that needs to be included in order to make the game more competitive/have more replayability are custom lobbies and pure objective modes. As the creators of some of the best multiplayer shooters, i have know idea why Bungie hasn’t incorporated these elements into Destiny.

  • Bmeowmix

    I think the most interesting way to do supers is to have one precharged at the start of the game and thats the only one you get. It’ll make every one count and will be much more strategic

  • War RiderOfRuin

    I’m all for a “hardcore” mode as some really competitive people really want it, however please add more modes and variety like capture the flag, not just modes where you remove things, when I want to play call of duty, I play call of duty, please more modes where we’re not just removing things that make destiny different like supers. The same thing happened in titanfall, a mode without titans? That really was call of duty so I had no interest in that mode but I was absolutely fine with it being there because there were tons of other modes and a variety pack mode, that mixed dlc maps and regular maps.

  • Battleshiplid

    I don’t fully agree with what was said about Supers, but if you wanted to change something you could lower the amount of points you get for each super kill. I know that would make me feel less cheated if I was the one who was killed, it would only be an annoyance, but for the person using it it would still save their life or clear an objective; it would be more of a utility rather than a way to rocket your team to victory.

  • asdf

    Heavy still drops way too often. Not to mention the fact that you can switch to an exotic heavy when it drops. Completely stupid.

    • Red Skyward

      Yeah, i still hold that exotics should be locked in everytime you start a match. I mean, all they have to do is give us a minute more of knowing what stage we are gonna play on, and then lock exotics till the end of the match

  • Mazerial

    Thanks for this article. I’ve particularly noticed the issue with map balance. Blind Watch especially. I’m not personally worried about special weapons or supers as much. I like where they are after this laat patch. I agree with the poster’s comments on the AR nerf. I’m happy that pulse rifles are now viable, but I don’t think ARs needed to also become obsolete. I would have preferred if ARs also remained viable. I think that with proper balance all weapons types could work equally ( within reason ) well. I like that players who don’t do as well still have a chance at great loot, but I also agree that you shouldn’t have the top people get skunked. While we’re at it, what about doing away with the anti-rewards. E.g. If I get Achilles, not only can I not even get glimmer for crushing it, but I often have to juggle my vault, character storage and mail just to get rid of it. It’s such a hassle it’s worse than getting nothing. It reminds me of tipping your waiter a penny.

  • BarretOblivion

    I think a good fix for the super issue is increase the time it takes to use the super. Titans are pretty much invincible while using Fist of Havoc/Panic because its used much to quick to kill the person unless they are already relatively weak. Same can be said about Nova bombs but they aren’t quite as fast of a cast time. Increase the times by 50% and that will give time to punish poorly timed super users to get better at recognizing when to use a super and when not to. Hunters are tricky as golden gun doesn’t give armor so killing a hunter while pulling out a golden gun is a viable stradegy. On the other hand the blade dance needs an armor decrease or cast time increase.

  • Brent

    One of the smartest comments I’ve seen so far mentioned that a very easy fix for Crucible would be to make it so that Supers do not drop orbs. (Sorry, I don’t remember who it was, but you made a great point.) This would end the Defender Titan bubble-brothers exploits, limit chained Supers from a defending team who would otherwise be raining orbs at an important choke point or node, and still allow discretionary use of tide-turning abilities that, believe it or not, can be useful to both very skilled players and casual players alike.

    Too many of the comments in reply to this article are little more than sour grapes. “Too many overpowered weapons”, etc. There are a wide variety of very viable weapons, and other than Felwinter’s Lie for special, there really isn’t a consensus best in the primary slot at the moment. I use the exotic hand cannons, Red Death, Timur’s Lash and even Universal Remote if I’m feeling frisky on Anomaly. I even use Invective frequently over Felwinter’s just because I love it. And even if Felwinter’s Lie has become somewhat ubiquitous, it was–and probably will be again–extremely easy to obtain. If it is so overpowered, as some comments claim, use it yourselves and take your excuse out of the equation.

    The maps are a little imbalanced in cases, yes. I think that’s the one point that I can’t even play devil’s advocate against. Part of the reason I think I enjoy Asylum most is that it’s the closest thing to a symmetrical map the Control game has. (Yes, I know one side entrance to B is more defensible than the other.) A mirrored format for a map (or a few maps) would be a simple way to bring some balance to the inherent node disadvantages present in some maps.

  • ToyotaHonda IsuzuMitsubishi

    Higher skilled players also get “higher” benefit from super, please dont forget that.

    Running into a random Novabomb is just like a traffic accident, I’d just respawn and get over it. Being wiped almost the entire team by a golden gun spree is worse imo.

    Also, same as many other issues in this game, wonder if it’s too hard for bungie to offer players the power to choose things, aka stupid option check boxes like “match making” in PvE or “Hard Core” (inferno) in PvP. (well, for god sake they dont even let us choose the pvp map)

    They might as well stretch to create “Primary weapons” “Special Weapons” “Heavy Weapons” check boxes. So that ppl who hate being killed by shot gunners (yes, scrub like me) would just uncheck that box to enter the “no special weapon” match.

    I know that it wont help much since less skilled players like myself would die from something else anyway, yet it would definitely feel less pissed than being killed by a blink-slide-bam-oh-I-am-freaking-god over and over.

    • Red Skyward

      This has been a major complaint for mainly crucible but also pve. People want custom lobbies and private matches, where the players get to choose things like that, but we haven’t seen them. If they added custom lobbies and private matches, a lot of problems with crucible could be fixed. Also, then competitive destiny could start having more validity

      • kalicush

        Thank you, i’m glad someone else mentioned this. Custom lobbies are such an important element in keeping multiplayer fps games relevant and fun. Considering it was such an important aspect of Halo, i’m not sure why Bungie hasn’t yet implemented it in this game..

        • Red Skyward

          Well, I honestly believe that it has to do with the fact that they never thought destiny would be this big when they first released it. The game is hugely popular now, and is “ready” for competitive gameplay, so hopefully they will add it in HoW or Comet (more likely comet since custome lobbies has been a more recent complaint of destiny fans)

  • Octus

    Until they start giving out rewards like when you play from the strike list, crucible isn’t worth my time. It needs more game modes than just shoot your fellow guardians. I want a racing mode, or a mode that lets me be a hive knight.

  • Elliott Baker

    The stupid thing is that there are still whole teams only using fusion rifles meaning that people like me with Thorn and Red Death have immense difficulties trying to land a hit or even a kill, personally I think that going around with a shotgun still requires a large amount of skill and having being called a few names by doing so is still being a problem. So Bungie, I’m wating too see what you do about the people with and without skill (Fusion rifle users)

  • Luke Charter

    My biggest issue with crucible is the lag. I’ve never experienced it this much with any other game. There are serious server issues which need to be addressed.

  • Red Skyward

    Great article. I agree with almost anything, and mostly agree with supers, but i think the most logical fix for supers is to remove the oversheild/ extra life that people get when they activate their super. A hunter with a golden gun can get shot down pretty quick, but a titan using his smash will almost never die before his super is over. Same with warlock’s novabomb. Arc blade can be taken down somewhat easily too, but its more diffucult. just remove the shields and everything is more balanced

  • Relz

    The main problems with the Crucible are the terrible rewards and reward drop rate, poor to terrible bounties and the extremely slow process of earning rep and marks. They really need to address that.

  • xbrico

    I honestly think instead of nerfing weapons for PvP, there should be a random weekly boost modifier. Essentially, you are not notified as to what weapon type gets the boost – RNGesus decides it on the day of the weekly reset and as its RNGesus, its not the ‘OMG, its shotgun week’ or whatever, you just have to cycle through your weapons and find out which one is doing more damage than normal and yours could be different to everyone elses (And also since its RNGesus, it will probably always be the same weapon type that you NEVER use week after week after…oh look, Sunbreakers again!!!).
    Means ppl also get to play through different weapon types so can improve all round skill in the Crucible. 🙂

    • MakkinjeM

      Like the idea in general, but I then would like to see it as a specific special mode personally. Next to all current playlists, something like ”Roulette” perfectly fitted for the purposes you stated! I don’t want to see this happen on conventional modes. That will only anoy the crap out of me, to be honest.

  • MakkinjeM

    Well for me four things should change, from this day seen. (since some patches have just arrived a few days ago)

    1. The general droprate of engrams should be in line with doing Vanguard ROC strike playlists.
    2. A minor increased chance for performing well in the crucible, for better rewards (but just a small difference, as lesser players need to have that random exotic chance as well, to not get more underpowered than what they already are)
    3. All playlists should become permanently available; A game as big as Destiny, specifically it’s PVE content (which is always available at any time), should have a lot more going for it in PVP as well. By that I mean: Salvage, Combined Arms, Skirmish, Doubles Skirmish, Clash, Control and Rumble, should always be playable, to give the Crucible a lot more of permanent variaty. With this, always the option for a Inferno and Hardcore mode, on all corresponding game types.
    4. New maps and old maps should be in the same roulation, and not in apart playlist selections.

    Only events like the Iron Banner should be a time based thing, not always available, to give some extra excitement to the Crucible in general.